Topic: The Chrysanthemums

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Re: The Chrysanthemums

Does Elisa regret being with her husband Henry, now that she has met the Tinker?

3 (edited by jozeller 2011-05-16 22:25:40)

Re: The Chrysanthemums

dwebb wrote:

Does Elisa regret being with her husband Henry, now that she has met the Tinker?

That is a good question. I don't think that she regrets being with her husband now that she has met the tinker. I think she just wants to live a life with many different opprtunities and experiences instead of always gardening and maintaining the household. The tinker represents spontaneity and following the open road wherever it leads him. Elisa is not used to those attributes and wishes for a little change in her life. I think that she still loves Henry as much as she did before she met the tinker. However, she may not have been totally in love with him in the first place.

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Re: The Chrysanthemums

dwebb wrote:

Does Elisa regret being with her husband Henry, now that she has met the Tinker?

I don't believe she regret her husband. She just wonders what else is beyond her garden, and what is really all out there in the world.

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Re: The Chrysanthemums

jozeller wrote:
dwebb wrote:

Does Elisa regret being with her husband Henry, now that she has met the Tinker?

That is a good question. I don't think that she regrets being with her husband now that she has met the tinker. I think she just wants to live a life with many different opprtunities and experiences instead of always gardening and maintaining the household. The tinker represents spontaneity and following the open road wherever it leads him. Elisa is not used to those attributes and wishes for a little change in her life. I think that she still loves Henry as much as she did before she met the tinker. However, she may not have been totally in love with him in the first place.

Ah yes, of course. Elisa is seeking more adventure than a boring life at the homestead. Thanks for the help Yosh!

Re: The Chrysanthemums

Does Elisa see herself the same way that others see her?

Cite details.

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Re: The Chrysanthemums

When Elisa realizes her "sin" she cleans herself with pumice, a small corse rock. Could this rock be God, or Jesus our rock, could this be a religious reference?

Re: The Chrysanthemums

kdkrys wrote:
dwebb wrote:

Does Elisa regret being with her husband Henry, now that she has met the Tinker?

I don't believe she regret her husband. She just wonders what else is beyond her garden, and what is really all out there in the world.

Quote a detail or two that suggests she "wonders".

Re: The Chrysanthemums

kdkrys wrote:

When Elisa realizes her "sin" she cleans herself with pumice, a small corse rock. Could this rock be God, or Jesus our rock, could this be a religious reference?

Yes. What time of year, the religious year, de we most associate with "cleansing"?

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Re: The Chrysanthemums

Is Elisa upset that her life with her husband is boring and that she can`t do what she wants or is it just that the life of the tinker is what she really would like to do with her life, no worries, no responsibilities, no one to worry about hurting, or no one that you have to watch over all the time??

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Re: The Chrysanthemums

dwebb wrote:

Does Elisa regret being with her husband Henry, now that she has met the Tinker?

I also don't agree that Elisa regrets being with Henry. After the Tinker arrives, they share a special bond as he shows interest in similar things as Elisa such as the Chrysanthemums, which are a huge part of her life, and her wanting to travel like he does. After the Tinker leaves, she is saddened that she doesn't have that special bond with her husband, even though he does make an effort to have that bond. She still loves him, their interests and bonds however simply differ between the Tinker and herself.

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Re: The Chrysanthemums

dwebb wrote:

Does Elisa regret being with her husband Henry, now that she has met the Tinker?

No, I don't think she necessarily regrets being with her husband. Elisa however does wish that she could follow her dreams and be more adventurous. The time that Elisa lives in limits what experiences she can have and how much of the world she can explore. She knows that according to society, her rightful place is with her husband on their successful ranch. But her heart leads her in a different direction. She knows that she loves her husband very much, and that he will always love her back.

I think that an interesting question is, if Elisa would have followed her dreams, where do you think she would be and what would she be doing?

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Re: The Chrysanthemums

dsader wrote:
kdkrys wrote:

When Elisa realizes her "sin" she cleans herself with pumice, a small corse rock. Could this rock be God, or Jesus our rock, could this be a religious reference?

Yes. What time of year, the religious year, de we most associate with "cleansing"?

The time that has just passed, Easter is a time to be "reborn." Easter and confession is a time of cleansing.

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Re: The Chrysanthemums

dsader wrote:

Does Elisa see herself the same way that others see her?

Cite details.

Well Steinbeck has her clothed in dirty, baggy, mens clothing, like she is hiding her true identity. When she meets the tinker she get an opportunity to express her true feminine side by being flirtatious. Elisa is seeking a new path in life but the clothes hide that. The clothes she wears are farming clothes but she wants to change and live differently.

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Re: The Chrysanthemums

kdkrys wrote:
dsader wrote:
kdkrys wrote:

When Elisa realizes her "sin" she cleans herself with pumice, a small corse rock. Could this rock be God, or Jesus our rock, could this be a religious reference?

Yes. What time of year, the religious year, de we most associate with "cleansing"?

The time that has just passed, Easter is a time to be "reborn." Easter and confession is a time of cleansing.

Also when a baby is born into a Catholic church the baby is cleansed by the priest in baptism.

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Re: The Chrysanthemums

I agree with derek I think she loves her husband but she still needs more excitement in her life. Her wondering is shown when she says "It must be nice, It must be very nice. I wish women could do such things." And when the tinker says it's no way for a woman to live she asks him "How do you know? How can you tell?"

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Re: The Chrysanthemums

dwebb wrote:

Does Elisa regret being with her husband Henry, now that she has met the Tinker?

I don't think Elisa regrets being with her husband, rather she regrets not going out and experiencing life more before she got married. I think Elisa wanted to learn more about the tinker because he has experience more than what Elisa has learned.

18 (edited by sberg 2011-05-17 10:35:22)

Re: The Chrysanthemums

dsader wrote:

Does Elisa see herself the same way that others see her?

Cite details.

Elisa does not see herself the same way others see her. Her husband, Henry, sees her as "strong enough to break a calf over her knee," and "happy enough to eat a whole watermelon." It is clear throughout "The Chrysanthemums," that Elisa views her life and her marriage as ordinary. She is "fenced" away from Henry's business life, and finds the most excitement in her garden. Like the chrysanthemum flowers, Elisa is young, with a thriving desire to experience adventure. When the tinker arrives, it is clear that she develops an attraction, not only to the tinker's interest in her, but to his carefree lifestyle. When he refuses her, she is left as a "fawning dog." Elisa does not let Henry view herself as her true character, because she will not admit her disappointment or despair, and even hides her tears and honesty from him. Elisa is not stong; She is a chrysanthemum growing deep inside with passion only to be cut down with the change of seasons and age.

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Re: The Chrysanthemums

ncoffey wrote:

Is Elisa upset that her life with her husband is boring and that she can`t do what she wants or is it just that the life of the tinker is what she really would like to do with her life, no worries, no responsibilities, no one to worry about hurting, or no one that you have to watch over all the time??

She might not be upset with her life, I think the life of the tinker just made her reflect on her own life. How the lack of excitement and predictability compared to his lifestyle which was full of the unknown. Envious is a term I would use to describe Elisa's emotions towards the tinker.

Do you think that Elisa will ever get the life of excitement she clearly desires?

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Re: The Chrysanthemums

ncoffey wrote:

Is Elisa upset that her life with her husband is boring and that she can`t do what she wants or is it just that the life of the tinker is what she really would like to do with her life, no worries, no responsibilities, no one to worry about hurting, or no one that you have to watch over all the time??

I think Elisa is just bored with her life. She does want to travel and see the world. But it seems that she is trapped in her garden, in her farm, in her little farming community and can't get out. Often lots of people wish they had no worries or responsibilities. They just want to let it all go.

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Re: The Chrysanthemums

Why is Elisa so upset when she sees that the Tinker threw away the Chrysanthemums? Is it because she worked hard to grow the chrysanthemums or more due to her relationship with the tinker?

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Re: The Chrysanthemums

dsader wrote:

Does Elisa see herself the same way that others see her?

Cite details.

I don't think others see Elisa as she sees herself. Her husband Henry appreciates the hard working wife he has that is able to maintain the garden orderly. This is suggested when Henry makes the remark, "You've got a gift with things. Some of those yellow chrysanthemums you had this year were ten inches across. I wish you'd work out in the orchard and raise some apples that big." However, Elisa sees herself differently. She keeps her garden orderly because she can't seem to keep her emotional life or marriage orderly.

Re: The Chrysanthemums

Who is "the lady down the road"?

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Re: The Chrysanthemums

mhynek wrote:

I agree with derek I think she loves her husband but she still needs more excitement in her life. Her wondering is shown when she says "It must be nice, It must be very nice. I wish women could do such things." And when the tinker says it's no way for a woman to live she asks him "How do you know? How can you tell?"

I think that she has limitations. She doesn't want to cross the line yet she knows that she wants more excitement after meeting the tinker.

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Re: The Chrysanthemums

jozeller wrote:

Why is Elisa so upset when she sees that the Tinker threw away the Chrysanthemums? Is it because she worked hard to grow the chrysanthemums or more due to her relationship with the tinker?

Elisa is upset when the Tinker threw away the Chrysanthemums for a couple reasons. First, she was upset that it showed the Tinker did not share the same bond as she did for him. Second,  the Chrysanthemums represented Elisa. They were strong, tall flowers and that is like Elisa. If he could simply throw away the Chrysanthemums, could he simply throw her out of his life?