26

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

dsader wrote:
kmarsh wrote:

... free association ...

Excellent. Look at a typical Jackson Pollack painting. What does it make you think of straight away?

When I googled his work, my first thought was nature. Trees, branches, etc.

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

kchoi wrote:

... rejects the ideology of realism ...

Is there a reality beyond what is "real" for modern man? Is hyper-reality reality? Are dreams real? How many mega pixels would an image need to be to be classified as real?


Is modern man hopeful or pessimistic?

28

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

Friedrich Nietzsche offered lecture courses on the "Pre-Platonic Philosophers" for several years, and the text of this lecture series has been characterized as a "lost link" in the development of his thought. "In it concepts such as the will to power, the eternal return of the same, the overman, gay science, self-overcoming and so on receive rough, unnamed formulations and are linked to specific pre-Platonic’s, especially Heraclitus, who emerges as a pre-Platonic Nietzsche."

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

kmarsh wrote:
dsader wrote:
kmarsh wrote:

... free association ...

Excellent. Look at a typical Jackson Pollack painting. What does it make you think of straight away?

When I googled his work, my first thought was nature. Trees, branches, etc.

http://www.nga.gov/feature/pollock/lm1024.jpg

What ideas are present in this Pollack example?

30

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

dsader wrote:
kmarsh wrote:
dsader wrote:

Excellent. Look at a typical Jackson Pollack painting. What does it make you think of straight away?

When I googled his work, my first thought was nature. Trees, branches, etc.

http://www.nga.gov/feature/pollock/lm1024.jpg

What ideas are present in this Pollack example?

The idea of no limits, not being restricted in what you do, who you see, how you act, etc. In essence, freedom. His paintings have no distinct images and therefore his genre of art doesn't require him to have limits on what he must produce.

31

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

Freud developed theories about the unconscious mind and the mechanism of repression. He established the field of verbal psychotherapy by creating psychoanalysis, a clinical method for treating psychopathology through dialogue between a patient and a psychoanalyst. Though psychoanalysis has declined as a therapeutic practice, it has helped inspire the development of many other forms of psychotherapy, some diverging from Freud's original ideas and approach.

32

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

KARL MARX & CHARLES DARWIN

Marx wrote in 1861: “Darwin’s work is most important and suits my purpose in that it provides a basis in natural science for the historical class struggle.”

Karl Marx & Charles Darwin defined the modern era. The two are the greatest scientific thinkers of our time. Evolution began it's triumph with the discovery of DNA and even with the opposition from religion, has become an essential part of our everyday lives and experience. Karl Marx has been defined by those who oppose socialism as outmoded, but his work, without a doubt, has taken on a new role as the world's financial system disintegrates and the global economy descends into a depression. Darwin had a great influence on Karl Marx. Karl Marx decided to take Darwin's theory of struggle and survival into political terms and make it his own. - Thus communism.

33

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

Charles Darwin affected society by stirring up new ideas and changing how people viewed Gods creation theory. Society had a huge impact on Darwin, forcing him to hide his ideas for a long time due to the fear of rejection by society. The main impact Darwin had was on religion was that his ideas showed that the world was a lot older than people were prepared to believe. Darwin continued to research and kept his work secret until he felt brave enough to publish it. He changed the way research is done and opened up new pathways to discover the great wonders of the universe.

34 (edited by aganton 2012-05-03 13:33:17)

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

"Supposing truth is a woman—what then?” - Nietzsche.  Then the truth would need to be flattered, not pursued with the tactless dogmatism of most philosophers. While philosophy must overcome its dogmatic: (Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, or a particular group or organization), it has at least provided our culture with the tension to spring forward into something new and better. Philosophy is interested in giving us insight not into truth but into the minds of the different philosophers. Everything is governed by a will to power, and in philosophy, we see great minds trying to impose their will on the world by persuading others to see the world as they see it. For Nietzsche, change is the predominant feature of reality. Everything is always changing: not just matter and energy, but ideas, wills, and of course, truth. Philosophy and science tend to see the world as made up of facts and things that we can observe and regulate, providing the illusion of stable, objective truths. Whatever we see as “true” at a moment is not so but rather represents the dominance of a particular will against the others working within us. Nietzsche’s main targets, from:

Christianity to science to democracy to traditional philosophy

which are all guilty in one way or another of denying or avoiding the fact that reality is composed of a constantly shifting competition between wills.

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

aganton wrote:

... Darwin's theory of struggle and survival into political terms ...

What are the dangers of democracy for modern man? Does our democracy foster or reject social Darwinism?

Should man accept or reject the forces outside himself that attempt to define him?

36

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

dsader wrote:
krochford wrote:

... commune together in harmony ...

Marx was not the first to suggest this idea was possible, but how does Modern Man achieve this, what must be rejected to get there?

By following these ten short-term demands.

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of the population over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form and combination of education with industrial production.[15]

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

krochford wrote:
dsader wrote:
krochford wrote:

... commune together in harmony ...

Marx was not the first to suggest this idea was possible, but how does Modern Man achieve this, what must be rejected to get there?

By following these ten short-term demands.

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of the population over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form and combination of education with industrial production.[15]

Could any idea on this "Top 10" list solve problems that exist today, or that you anticipate in the near future?

38

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

This "seems" asystematic. The sound produced by this music is not something you would want to listen on radio.






The instrument, is actually a "prepared" piano... the piano is carefully, and is mechanically calculated to "pluck" the piano strings. This is systematic, but also asystematic at the same time.

39

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

dsader wrote:

Could any idea on this "Top 10" list solve problems that exist today, or that you anticipate in the near future?

I don't see any of those "Top 10" solving problems we face today they seem too retro of ideas.

40

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

Karl Marx believed in the "Abolition of all right of inheritance". This would refer to the bourgeoisie, the wealthy nation of people who controlled everything. In those times when a wealthy and powerful man died he left everything to his children. It could go to someone who knew nothing about the business, and only had control over the workers because of his ancestry. Marx believed that this was not right, power and control are not birth rights, given to someone solely because of who their father is. This was a rejection of the previous, 'keep it in the family', way if life; it paved the way for workers to gain control over their own affairs and not have someone who may or may not know what they are doing, dictate what is best for them.

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

aganton wrote:

KARL MARX

Marx's most important insight: "The end justifies the means". Which is directly linked to Consequentialism. Consequentialism based on the ideal that a morally right deed is one that will produce a good outcome, or consequence. Marx's explanations completely rejected the ideal of Capitalism. Capitalism, according to Marx, utilized an industrial society’s working class by giving a portion of the value of the workers’ output.  The capitalists, driven by greed for money, use money to get more money and their engine for money growth is fueled by surplus value stolen from the working class.

Marx's theory of history consisted of the idea that forms of society rise and fall as they further and then block the development of human power.
History and economics come together in Marx's prediction of the inevitable economic breakdown of capitalism, to be replaced by communism.


[*]He was the one of the first to make humanity understand that the working people of the country were the ones who had the power.
[*]He strongly believed that the socialism would trump capitalism. 
[*]He also believed that society would be completely classless and the working class will rise above all others.

Describe a typical conflict between a modern worker and a modern corporation?

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

krochford wrote:
dsader wrote:

Could any idea on this "Top 10" list solve problems that exist today, or that you anticipate in the near future?

I don't see any of those "Top 10" solving problems we face today they seem too retro of ideas.

Look more closely.

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

kchoi wrote:

This "seems" asystematic. The sound produced by this music is not something you would want to listen on radio.

The instrument, is actually a "prepared" piano... the piano is carefully, and is mechanically calculated to "pluck" the piano strings. This is systematic, but also asystematic at the same time.

Compare a modern musical instrument to a classical instrument. What might future instruments look like?

44

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

dsader wrote:
aganton wrote:

... Darwin's theory of struggle and survival into political terms ...

What are the dangers of democracy for modern man? Does our democracy foster or reject social Darwinism?

Should man accept or reject the forces outside himself that attempt to define him?

As Winston Churchill said,

"No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

What’s the problem with democracy? What we have in most western countries(Canada & USA) isn’t true democracy, it’s a republic. We elect rulers, and they make policies. True democracy would mean that people would actually vote on ALL issues. Of course, that might mean almost daily elections, which would certainly be too much of an annoyance to most people. What about the U.S, 100 or 150 years ago? If it had came to a vote, the majority would not vote for freedom. It would be much the opposite. Or even today. If there were a referendum in the United States, the teachings of evolution (SOCIAL DARWINISM) would be out. And instead replaced with “intelligent design”. Americans, unfortunately, believe in creationism over evolution.

What's funny is democracy and freedom aren’t even synonyms.

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

aganton wrote:

... For Nietzsche, change is the predominant feature of reality ...

This made me think of how we prepare for a future in the work world. How is modern man to prepare for a future of an ever changing work world. How do our preparations for a career today differ from, say 150 years ago?

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

aganton wrote:
dsader wrote:
aganton wrote:

... Darwin's theory of struggle and survival into political terms ...

What are the dangers of democracy for modern man? Does our democracy foster or reject social Darwinism?

Should man accept or reject the forces outside himself that attempt to define him?

As Winston Churchill said,

"No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

What’s the problem with democracy? What we have in most western countries(Canada & USA) isn’t true democracy, it’s a republic. We elect rulers, and they make policies. True democracy would mean that people would actually vote on ALL issues. Of course, that might mean almost daily elections, which would certainly be too much of an annoyance to most people. What about the U.S, 100 or 150 years ago? If it had came to a vote, the majority would not vote for freedom. It would be much the opposite. Or even today. If there were a referendum in the United States, the teachings of evolution (SOCIAL DARWINISM) would be out. And instead replaced with “intelligent design”. Americans, unfortunately, believe in creationism over evolution.

What's funny is democracy and freedom aren’t even synonyms.

Clever "democracy and freedom". I concur, Canadians seem to get the irony here.

Here is a challenge. How does Modern Man have Faith? What remains after Marx, Nietcsche, Freud, and Darwin have pulverized so many accepted ideals?

47 (edited by aganton 2012-05-04 12:57:53)

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

dsader wrote:

Describe a typical conflict between a modern worker and a modern corporation?

September 17th 2011 - OCCUPY WALL STREET begins..

Occupy wall street is an ongoing protest exactly about the question you just raised. It was initiated by the Canadian activist group called Adbusters. It led to the whole world following in the same footsteps.

Occupy wall street addressed issues of - economic inequality, greed, corruption, and influence of corporations on government. Which are ALL terms that Karl Marx addressed in his Ten Planks:

1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.


3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.


4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive MONOPOLY.

6. Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State.
.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.


8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.


9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country.


10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.
t.

"We are the 99%!"

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

aganton wrote:
dsader wrote:

Describe a typical conflict between a modern worker and a modern corporation?

September 17th 2011 - OCCUPY WALL STREET begins..

Occupy wall street is an ongoing protest exactly about the question you just raised. It was initiated by the Canadian activist group called Adbusters. It led to the whole world following in the same footsteps.

Occupy wall street addressed issues of - economic inequality, greed, corruption, and influence of corporations on government. Which are ALL terms that Karl Marx addressed in his Ten Planks:

1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.


3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.


4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive MONOPOLY.

6. Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State.
.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.


8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.


9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country.


10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.
t.

"We are the 99%!"

Does Modern Man have any faith in rising up to usurp the power of a corporation?  What modern advantages to corporations enjoy to keep modern man in his place?

Consider: http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/04/concord_mass_bans_sale_of_plas.html

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

John Milton wrote:

Aristotle ... imputed this symphony of the heavens ... this music of the spheres to Pythagorus. ... But Pythagoras alone of mortals is said to have heard this harmony ... If our hearts were as pure, as chaste, as snowy as Pythagoras' was, our ears would resound and be filled with that supremely lovely music of the wheeling stars.

Are the lyrics of Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star appropriate for the universe as Modern Man knows it?

50

Re: Modernism: Marx, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud

dsader wrote:
aganton wrote:

... For Nietzsche, change is the predominant feature of reality ...

This made me think of how we prepare for a future in the work world. How is modern man to prepare for a future of an ever changing work world. How do our preparations for a career today differ from, say 150 years ago?

Well, given the reality of our economy today, preparing for the 'work world' is a lot different than it was 150 years ago. 150 years ago .. it would have been 1862. American Civil Wars ... from January all through til December and for years after. Men were conscripted. And women still weren't even considered human beings since that came later in 1918. During this war, the economy was thoroughly based on slave labor.

http://i49.tinypic.com/15ek6k4.jpg

The economy was rough, but no body gave up without first getting their hands dirty.

Now, after the industrial revolution, the people making the most amount of money are those sitting in office chairs. It reminds me of the show Undercover Boss.. Where CEOs go into their own company's workforce and experience what it's like to be involved in some of the duties that every day workers from factories, .. etc.
It's a real change of pace.. and I wish that it was the other way around. How much you make should be determined on how much work you do. - Now I'm not saying that CEOs don't work.. But compared to the people who dig ditches, clean hotel rooms, or that feed and teach our children it's a bit seemingly that they don't work hard enough. ...

/End rant.